Todays festivities, Nick Griffin of the BNP enjoying himself with some, eh, bretheren.
My apologies for the poor quality, not just of the company, but the photo also
UPDATE: Mr Griffin tweets the following tonight:
“So Ulster pics have upset my Republican stalkers. Tell you what, the bodran can’t match the lambeg, you Fenian bastards.”
"We in coming days may be" 
The pic did not open. 😦
I heard that Griffin tweeted something that people didnt like.
Bizarre notion on Slugger about time for a new covenant. As Walker has some kinda role with a Think Tank in London, it has probably not come out of thin air.
And I note Robinson slabbering about Catholic unionists as the “polls are telling us”.
The name of the game here is to make reference to polls, real, shabbily done or just plain non-existant to create a kinda “fact” which becomes accepted.
I did notice that there was not much about the parade while it was actually going on.
The news……..good and bad ……will only become known on Monday.
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Mr Fitz,
Nick has, in one fell swoop, identified the whole Covenant thing with the BNP. I’ll not lay out what they are as I know anyone reading here already knows. I await a response from Unionism. Anyone will do.
Especially any Unionist readers of this blog and I know there are many.
It is time to speak up
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Oh, that did make my day.
Who are either side of him in the photo btw?
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Fc,
You think like me, working on that now but would welcome any suggestions
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The Unionists always grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
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This has to go down as one of the most spectacular own goals ever. Two words. Popcorn, Pint.
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Ah it has now opened up.
To some extent there are three distinct types of “Orangeman”. By the way, it would be interesting to know if Griffin is actually a member.
There is………a more or less…….decent type who wanted this day to be genuine celebration……for them.
A second type which frankly doesnt care what people esp Catholics think of them.
And a third which actually feels the day went better if the Taigs hated it.
We have seen all three “parade” on thread on a non-existent weblog.
For me……the allegedly decent people in the loyal orders/unionism have never done enough to really disentangle themselves from the worse elements.
I really dont “get” the people who think this is a day for us all……I certainly see it is a unionist day.
But rather like those “football” journalists who feel that Manchester United, Arsenal, Spurs fans are “behind” Chelsea in a European final……the letsgetalongerists have no real conception of how these things work.
A good day for Unionism? Yes probably
Has Griffin undermined it? Yes (an uncomfortable reminder of fascist underbelly) and No (he has enhanced it in some eyes).
But the Covenant is over and I dont suppose Brian Walkers call for a new Covenant (on Slugger) has come totally out of the blue. It might be part of a new “unionist” choreography.
But I think they would need to move fast…….the next big day (apart from commemorating the start of WW1) is Easter 1916 so the initiative passes to nationalists.
And while the Conflict Resolutionists can dictate the Centenaries, I dont think they have the same control over those half-centenaries such as say Bloody Sunday or Bloody Friday.
Nor can they control the emotions of people at new events…..including for example the fact that many respected and reviled people who were prominent in Republic, Norn Iron and Britain will not be around at the end o this decade.
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I am, and I use this word with restraint, Incandescent.
I await Nelsons excuses and Peters denials of responsibility.
The simple truth is that this idiot was there and made a statement which is frankly racist and xenophobic. Will the PSNi take action? Do they need a complaint? Will the SDLP or SF Make one? If not I will
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I’m an Orangeman and went over to him when he was pointed out to me. I had a long argument/discussion with him about his anti-Islamist and anti-immigrant agenda. I told him I was disgusted that he was at an event by an organisation that has members of different races and colours (from Ghana and Togo in Africa to Mohawks and Italians in Canada as well as the many of British descent). Needless to say that won’t fit in well with the angle present here.
Don’t be led down the path to believe that he was welcomed with open arms and gave a speech from the platform. He was walking around with a small group. If you want to see us as associated with racism, then work away. What I say will not change your viewpoint. Chances are, you’re going to need to look at yourself and evaluate your perception of others, starting with me.
There are plenty of decent people out there. Most don’t make a fuss or grab the limelight. I hope though in some way that I made a point to him from loyalists that we are not an open recruiting ground.
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Carrickally,
I am genuinely glad to hear that. And you are welcome here. My argument is that the cause of Unionism is greatly harmed by being associated with people like Nick. I think that it will do damage to your argument by being associated with such people and your leaders do you no favours by allowing that to happen
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Thanks for the welcome. There was no association on my part or, if I dare speak for them, the leaders of the OO and the Unionist politicians. He was free to wander, like the Free P’s who were handing out plastic bags filled with their goodies. Unfortunately his presence was there, it will be picked up on for all the wrong reasons.
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Bangordub,
The man on Griffin’s right is the Rev Robert West. Had to check on google for his name though I recall him appearing on a discontinued Sunday morning show several years back- guy who presented it was called Nicki something? The other is Stephen Moore, BNP leader in NI I think. He was a neighbour of ours in Larne a long time ago.
He stood in East Antrim at the last Assembly Elections, garnering a mighty 2.5% share of the total Unionist vote in the constituency. Contrasted with Sinn Fein, who outpolled the SDLP by almost 2:1 in the same seat. Maybe people should reflect on that simple fact before they tar all Protestants with the same brush.
If I had to chose between a misguided man who called people ‘Fenian bastards’ and a political party who continue to justify their sectarian murder of hundreds of Protestants, I know which I would be stuck with.
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*rather be stuck with.
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Hi Martin,
‘If I had to chose between a misguided man who called people ‘Fenian bastards’ and a political party who continue to justify their sectarian murder of hundreds of Protestants, I know which I would be stuck with.’
Selective memory much? You had the nice choice of picking parties that not only called people ‘Fenian bastards’ but they would either give guns to those willing to kill and justify the killing of hundreds of Catholics (DUP and Ulster Resistance anyone?) or another who for 50 years or so had a police force and militia and used all of the functions of the ‘state’ to either make Catholics into de facto second class citizens or on occasion to beat or kill them.
Hey, you may even call that ‘whataboutery’, the rest of us call that highlighting your selective memory and complete hypocrisy on this matter.
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carrickally,
“I’m an Orangeman and went over to him when he was pointed out to me. I had a long argument/discussion with him about his anti-Islamist and anti-immigrant agenda.”
Well done.
There is certain sympathy within the unionist community for the ‘British’ right – the extent to which this exists is difficult to guage – and that allows it to both be under and over estimated.
Shouldn’t the Orange Order issue a statement stating if they have had any official communication (or quiet ocnversations) with the BNP previously, or specifically regarding his presence, and what their attitude to the BNP is? Or have they done this already?
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Martin,
re. support for SF.
support for violence at the beginning of the 20th century, and again during the Ulster Workers stirke was/is is widespread within the Unionist community where the implict threat of attacking their Nationalist neighbours was used to break the will of the British government.
We are now in a Peace Process and SF and the Unionist parmilitiaries marching yesterday are part of that – the presence of the BNP is clearly a seperate issue from the support for former combatants whether loyalist or republican.
The Orange Order are happy to have loyalist parmilitiaries involved in their parades and that is fair enough (apart from the hypocricy of not talking to SF) but their attitude to the BNP should br clarified (if not already done so) otherwise we are free to conjecture on that.
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There are really three kinds of unionist/loyalist/loyal orders type person…..the highly respectable type who stopped in County Tyrone and stood in respectful silence when my uncles coffin was removed from the house.
There is a second kind who is indifferent to what people think of him.
There is a third who actually welcomes confrontation. A person whose day out is enhanced by attaching himself to Christian gentlemen and actually enjoys the spectacle of police baton charging uppity Taigs.
Unfortunately the respectable people have not found a way of detaching themselves and their organisation from the lowest common denominator of loyalist. After all the strength is in numbers.
Lets be frank…..some of the people walking in that parade yesterday have served some time in prison. They are much worse than an English political thug watching them.
Celebrating Craig and Carson is really just a headline act….there were some unsavoury characters in 1912….Fred Crawford for example who have been airbrushed out of the “nice” narrative that UTV have sold to us.
Or tried to sell to us. Some of us are a hard sell.
So the Covenant has come and gone. The Ulster Covenant of 1912 would have been different from any late 19th century Presbyterian document. And having outlived its purpose and got to 100 it can be mothballed and Brian Walkers “new” covenant thought up to bind unionism with a different inclusive template for another 100 years.
A small window of opportunity before 2016 I think.
Did Griffin blow it for unionism yesterday?
No…respectable unionists will say he was peripheral. The thugs will accept him. After all he got more publicity attaching himself to respectability at Stormont yesterday than he would have handing out some literature in a street market in Blackburn or Burnley.
The respectabe narrative given to the Covenant by UTV and BBC……..made Griffin respectable.
To some extent I am only surprised that people are surprised.
I am 60 and I have seen this for 40 odd years.
Did the mask slip? No there is no mask…..thats the reality. People like the loyal orders need to be marginalised …….then accomodate them.
When Meryn Gibson visits Donegal to thank the Irish Government for accomodating them. When Orange leaders go to Pheonix Park to have tea and sandwiches…….they have to be confronted on why they think they have more in common with a kick-the-Pope band than Catholic residents.
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http://hoboroadpoliticalhighway.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/sdlp-councillor-makes-complaint-against.html?m=1
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Fair play to Nichola Mallon who I think is on Dr Als staff and obviously being groomed to take over from Alban in North Belfast.
Is making the complaint the second act of leadership in just over a week?
Probably.
Its certainly the kinda thing mainstream nationalists want to see.
Discomforting the narrative the loyal orders like to present of themselves……and which the media seem to accept uncritically for the so called Common Good.
There are fanciful explanations on another website…….of John Terry proportions.
Fenians call themselves Fenians………and therefore cannot be offensive. Well by that definition the “Q” word cannot be offensive because some Gay folks adopt it. And the “N” word” cannot be offensive because rappers adopt it.
Lets be clear in the ordinary discourse…….this particular F word, that Q word and that N word ARE extremely offensive.
And what are we to make of the excuse that Fenian is ancient………and honourable?.
Or that Fenian is not anti-Catholic ……it is anti Republican and therefore a political rather than sectarian insult?
All a bit dare I say……….jesuitical………from Orange apologists.
“Fenian Bastard” at Windsor Park……..usually added to songs about the Virgin Mary, the Pope and Holy Water are indeed sectarian. I have rarely heard Plato ridiculed at Windsor Park for writing The Republic.
And Nick Griffin did after all say this on Twitter………and neither Cuchullain or William Smith O’Brien have Twitter accounts.
And the Orange apologists would have us believe that Fenian cant be sectarian because……..well there are Protestant republicans.
Certainly its more likely that there are Protestant republicans than Catholic Orangemen.
Which is an odd way to defend Nick Griffin and his ilk.
After all the apologists are saying that Republicanism is INCLUSIVE and “Fenian bastards” cant be sectarian.
And oddly Orangeism is NOT INCLUSIVE. Which means I suppose “Orange Bastard” is more offensive as its sectarian. What it says for UUP and DUP Outreach is a massive own goal.
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What type of legs do we think this Nick Griffin ‘tweet’ may have then? Personally, not much.
Now, the alleged playing of what are not considered to be hymns when going past St Matthews, is this a storm in a tea cup, did it happen and if it did happen what are the likely consequences for, for instance, Peter Robinson?
Sorry to blag but I’ve started my own blog too (shamefully blagging on my part!)
http://footballcliches.wordpress.com/
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I have to admit that I have been out of the loop this weekend.
To some extent we will only know what happened when we read the Irish News tomorrow.
The handling of both these stories……….BBC and UTV will be all letsgetalongerist……that these were isolated incidents. But I think we have moved into ne territory…….first of all the hymn playing is a bankable gain for nationalists and one of the the things to be added to the check list that pushes Orangeism into the corner. Whats right in Newtownards Road……..has to be right all over.
Most decent Orangemen cant object…..they are a religious organisation they tell us.
The thuggy element wont like it.
Griffin? Why not?
Bizarrely Nichola mallon is being criticised for not making multiple complaints about a lot of people.
But surely if a person criticises Nichola for NOT complaining about something…….then the critic should makea complaint.
A pattern here?
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