Is this Culture? Is it a fraternal, benign christian organisation? Is it a semi political hymn singing club for boys? Is it a project for the advancement of Protestant religious values and ideals? Is it a means of expressing alliegance to the British Crown and the laws signed off by the holder of that Crown? Is it a proud expression of local values and community solidarity? Is it a valuable contributor to society? Is it a confraternity of generally elderly gentlemen with common purpose and good intentions? Is it a social thing? Is it politically influential? Is it the same as it ever was?
This week, Slugger, that ‘aul Dinosaur of the Interweb, fond as I am of its foibles, asked if it had changed anyones opinions.
It hasn’t changed any of mine because it is essentially a forum for entrenched opinions.
I prefer my opinions to be informed by facts.
The facts I saw this week changed my opinions on Unionism. Particularly Political Unionism. Dereliction of leadership, complete capitulation to the lowest imaginable denominator, blatant sectarianism, sickening bigotry.
The only shining torch from this motorway pile up for Unionism was the statement by the heads of the Presbyterian and Church of Ireland congregations.
Huge Respect for that. It’s called actual Leadership.
My original question – What is it?
You may notice I didn’t address my opening paragraph to any named organisation or group. If you know who I am talking about I think that kind of proves the point.
I really tried to think of their value or positive contributions to society. That was the best I could come up with. If I tried to balance this post with their negative influence, frankly, I could write a Novel
"We in coming days may be" 
I thought you may find this interesting?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0901/1224323461485.html#.UEICR2v5sUw.
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bd,
I presume that there is a theory lurking somehwere in anthropology which shows that ethnic groups/ethnic minority groups (referred hereinafter as tribes) will react poorly to other tribes if they perceive themselves as under threat from them.
What is suprising about the you-know-whoos who involve themsleves in ritualistic parading(and their wider tribe) is that their behaviours seem disproportionate to that threat and most worryingly for them their behaviours are actually increasing that threat – something that the political leaders of the tribe might be expected to try and mitigate by displaying that quality you highlighted above – i.e. leadership.
The problem with provding ‘leadership’ to a tribe which percieves itself under threat is the tendency of that tribe to determine that those attempting to provide leadership are in fact increasing that threat and this means that potential leaders of the tribe often decide to pass on those leadership opportunities.
Messrs Trimble O’Neill et al are prime examples of those who did provide leadership but were (at least in the short term) viewed less than favourably by their tribe.
It is also the case, though rarely discussed, that other tribe(s) that are on the receiving end of the poor behavour will actually benefit from the this poor behaviour(and are sometimes allaeged to enourage it) as a result of the lowering of the status of the tribe which is behaving badly and the relative strengthening of the postion of the tribe which is on the receiving end.
This situation seems unlikley to change at least for the forseeable future.
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Good answer Sammy,
Unionism has a long history of leaders who were ahead of their electorate and paid a price. O’Neill being the best example. Trimble also tried but failed for reasons that I believe were not linked to his politics but rather personality. I met the man. A hard guy to like, even for his friends.
Of course Paisley is the prime example. His Unionist credentials were impeccable but even he mellowed in the eyes of the diehards. Perhaps Unionism needs a Leader who will look it in the eye and tell it the truth.
As long as they are led by Donkeys, they will continue to spend their energies running over cliffs.
Nuts!
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I think the difference between Paisley and Trimble is that whilst Trimble led Paisley really only shepherded – because by the time he(Paisley)moved, Unionism had really only one direction to go – as the British had made it clear that even more serious Irish involvement was the alternative.
Paisley did a good job herding the Unionist flock into the (British-Irish-Hume-Adams constructed) GFA pen but it was Trimble who realised that saying ‘NO’ again simply wasnt going to work that time round.
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I have always had the impression that the Loyalist’s (the Davy Irvines etc) were actually way ahead of their traditional political representatives. Perversely, they never gained real political success.
The path to success trodden by “successful” Unionist Politicians seems to involve generating fear and playing on variations of the no surrender mantra.
Why is this?
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Just having a nose on Slugger which has been spiffing over the last while.
I see Mick is peddaling the OO justification for violence
“My base point is that there’s a fault in the design: ie, you get concessions for behaving badly.”
.. I dont think loyalist violence at, and over Drumcree, has worked out too well for the OO.
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Gents, as I refuse to go to SOT to view it, would I be right in thinking that MF is peddling the same kind of thinking he did when the Short Strand ‘invited trouble’ from an orchestrated loyalist mob?
Regarding your opening stanza BD, it is all of these things to its members and maybe more, who knows? Unfortunately for them, it is also a reactionary, right wing, idiotic organisation that seems to love shooting itself in the foot at any and every opportunity and is marching its way to not being allowed to march in Belfast city centre, something I look forward to seeing as I was stuck in traffic for an hour while they halted traffic during midday 2 weekends ago.
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I see Nigel Dodds has just blamed the media for the violence in North Belfast.
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Thanks for the E-Mail Bangordub.
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It is Incredible the response from Deputy Dodds etc, It’s everybodys fault except us!
I seem to recall that it was the Orange Order that scuppered a deal to get rid of the Parades commission at Hillsborough. Hmmmm well that worked for them.
Now we have the new phenomenon of the Orange Camera (or is it the Orange Ornathologist) Club, posing atop the Carlisle “Circus” Orange hall. No doubt that’s what will be claimed next.
Absurdity upon absurdity. I am intrigued by their capacity for self delusion.
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whataboutery alert : “Ornathologist” – for the Carlisle Circus 7 see the Colombia 3
Dodds and co have invested so much in this that I think the situation is not turning form the absurd to the very dangerous – the focus/pressure will now be on the Carrick Hill residents.
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I’m not sure how appropriate the statement by the PSNI is – they should be telling people to obey the law not distracting from the issue by suggesting politicians solve the problem.
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I think they are highlighting the lack of Political responsibility. Their job is to uphold the law but that is made rather more difficult if the Politicos who frame that law treat it with contempt.
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bd,
Yes I realise what they are highlighting – or blame sharing.
The DUP are actually encouraging ‘civil disobedience’ – in the first instance the police should be telling those Politicos(ie the DUP, PUP, OO) to uphold the law not encouraging other to break it.
There is quite seperate issue of SF and the DUP trying to get both short term and long term agreement.
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http://www.endgameinulster.blogspot.ie/2012/09/digital-switchover.html?m=1
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Enda,
Good stuff.
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The PSNI also said that
“We have no evidence that the UVF officially sanctioned or orchestrated the violence over the past couple of nights but you cannot have violence take place in those areas and not have members of loyalist paramilitary groups involved.”
Are they saying they have no evidence that individual members of the UVF were/are orchestrating the violence?
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I think there is an element of a power struggle between Nelson McCausland and Nigel Dodds. Dodds looked extremely uncomfortable in interviews as he always gets aggressive when he is uncomfortable.
Nelson McCausland in comparison is totally shameless.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19710873
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