A Guest Post by Morpheus:
The nationalist parties in Northern Ireland currently hold 40% of the seats at Stormont, 40% of the seats in our local councils, 45% of Northern Ireland’s Westminster seats and topped the last European elections by a country mile but the question still needs to be asked – what are they doing about the one issue which the SDLP ranks as Number 1 in their list of ideas and Sinn Féin…well let’s just say we know their feelings on the matter. Catalonian-style mock border polls in highly partisan areas with claims of gerrymandering to get the results they want? Please. The media gave them the attention they deserved – zero.
When talking about the cost of Scotland’s bid for independence The Belfast Telegraph’s Ed Curren recently asked the question:
“What price a united Ireland now, or in the future? The war of words over Scotland’s economy should raise this fundamental question on this side of the Irish Sea, yet nationalist and republican politicians continue to ignore it.”
Curran goes on to add:
“A border poll on the future of Northern Ireland cannot be conducted in an economic vacuum. Nationalism lies at the heart of the political debate in Northern Ireland, yet virtually no one – including the media here – is asking the searching questions which, in Scotland’s case, must be keeping Alex Salmond awake these nights as the referendum approaches. What would be the cost of nationalism for the people of Northern Ireland? Can anyone produce a coherent economic strategy which might convince some unionists of its merits? Why are those who vote for nationalist parties not demanding answers for themselves and their families? Or are they simply, as the opinion polls suggest, paying lip-service to the aspiration of unity, while acknowledging they are better off in the UK?”
My problem with nationalists drawing up their own framework is that it won’t be looked at by half the population, north and south of the border, because it will be seen as unreliable Sinn Féin ‘back of a cigarette packet’ propaganda. And they’d probably be right. And why should they look at it based on uninspiring displays like this from senior Sinn Féin leaders? It would be an exercise in futility.
In my opinion any framework needs to be completed by an independent organisation who will work hand in hand with the guarantors of the GFA, the British and Irish Governments. Only they will have full access to their relevant Ministries (especially the tax departments) to get answers to the key questions regarding all the options available to the people of Ireland. This framework will put in black and white what a new Ireland would look like in terms of education, health, economy, judiciary, social security, political representation etc and then the electorate can finally make an informed decision about what is best for them and their families. It could be that that the people of Northern Ireland decide that our constitutional future lies within the UK but at least an informed electorate will make their informed choice based on facts and not myth – an example of which comes from a recent conversation when someone asked why anyone would want to join a united Ireland when it costs €100 to see a GP when in reality the national average is less than half that at €46. The electorate deserves to make a decision on facts.
To further demonstrate the laziness of the nationalist parties on this key issue, the constitutional future of Northern Ireland is very clearly set out in The Good Friday Agreement:
(1) It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.
(2) But if the wish expressed by a majority in such a poll is that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament such proposals to give effect to that wish as may be agreed between Her Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom and the Government of Ireland.”
Therefore the first thing that should concern the nationalist parties is the aforementioned poll and the mechanism for getting one set out in the GFA:
“1. The Secretary of State may by order direct the holding of a poll for the purposes of section 1 on a date specified in the order.
2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.
3. The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule.”
The nationalist parties should be asking the Secretary of State:
“What exactly do you need to see in order for it to appear likely to you that the majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland…do you need to see something in the elections results? Something in the census? Something in the NILT? A combination? What?”
But they haven’t even done that! They have no idea where they are going so how do they expect to get there?
The Secretary of State should be looking to clarify matters as well to protect herself and both communities. Should it be left to a single person – a person who none of us cast a single vote for – to make such a decision without making it crystal clear on what basis they make that decision? What if the next SoS has a completely different take on it? If the criteria for example is for a nationalist party to hold the First Minister’s position then the wait might not be that long but if the criteria is that more than 50% of the seats at Stormont must be nationalist then it puts the likelihood of a poll back by decades and we can all put the issue on the back burner.
As stated, the nationalist parties have been incredibly lazy and it is probably because the SDLP are currently next to non-existent and Sinn Féin have been focusing their efforts on making themselves powerhouses on both sides of the border but Ed Curren’s question still rings true:
“Why are those who vote for nationalist parties not demanding answers for themselves and their families? Or are they simply, as the opinion polls suggest, paying lip-service to the aspiration of unity, while acknowledging they are better off in the UK?”
"We in coming days may be" 
Morpheus,
I think the answer to your last question is Yes.
As my many spats with BD on this site will illustrate, we can divide Nats into those who think a UI is likely/inevitable in the near future (the optimists) and those who do not (the pessimists).
I count myself amongst the pessimists – largely because of the way the Southern government (chiefly FF) aided and abetted by a compliant press and media and opposition cheerled the plain people of Ireland into economic meltdown.
Ireland is never mentioned now by Scot Nats as a reason for independence unless they are taking part in the Edinburgh fringe. Thanks for that Berty.
The strategy on a UI should in my opinion be one of recognising that there is no point in having a debate on the issue until such times as the economic climate in the South is sufficiently robust and our friends from the IMF will not be coming back.
As we are not at that point yet – any debate on a UI will be totally counterproductive – as was SF’s very poor efforts to raise the subject – with Alex Maskey having his arse kicked by Arelene on BBC – and in the meantime the SDLP and SF should put the blame for this state of affairs where it belongs – with the Southern incompetents.
ps I think I remember a Morheus over on Slugger?
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Sammy, 2 things.
1. As we can see from the current Scottish debate, once the campaign gets underway -things can move very quickly and momentum is key. Us optimists with our positive campaigning and tend to win arguments on several levels. The politics of fear, loathing and threats are exposed for what they are and if that is Unionist strategy it will fail.
2. At the risk of repeating myself, there is an avalanche of positive economic data emerging south of the border recently. Incomes are higher, quality of life is better and the forthcoming budget is looking as if it may be more benign by the day. I appear to have been correct in my analysis so far. I still stand by my optomistic opinions. I see no evidence that I have been wrong. Indeed the resurgance of the southern economy will create benefits north of the border also! 😉
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BD,
re. Scotland.
The odds currently are 3/1 for Scottish independence. If you believe as you suggest – then some easy money for you there.
re. ” I appear to have been correct in my analysis so far.”
That is a bit of an overstatement – if I may be so bold as to observe.
I have never argued that things are not going to get better. The problem is I think that there seems a reluctance to admit, on your behalf – for purely ideological reasons – the seriousness of the economic situation in the South.
A debate on ‘taking on’ the North in the current economic climate is not in the interests of Nationalism – presumably the reason that even SF have not even tried to seriously raise the profile of the debate.
The metaphor of the recovering patient being encouraged to run a marathon whilst still confined to his bed after a life saving operation is a reasonable one and one that I doubt the boy Noonan( who has done an outstanding job in my opinion) would not even quibble with – if he was asked about reclaiming green field Number 4.
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Sammy, I realise that you are not going to view things as I do under the “grey clouds”down south, nevertheless If my Pint of Arthur is worth three agin’ yours you are certainly on for a bet regarding the Scottish debate? I may not win but if I do, I’ll enjoy it! 😉
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Should it come to pass, and the boul Alex, pulls it off – you will have your 3 richly deserved pints (and I will have considerably more than that).
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One and the same Sammy. 🙂
I take your point on the timing of the economic debate but the point I was trying to make (probably poorly – this is my first blog) is that regardless of the timing there is no point in SF leading the process because they do not have the necessary access to the relevant ministries plus if they did carry out the assessment then it will be disregarded by half the population of Northern Ireland as nothing more than SF propaganda. It would be an exercise in futility unless a respected, independent organisation does the analysis.
But in the meantime there are things that the nationalist parties could be doing to reassure their voters that they are actually doing something productive to work towards the one goal that differentiates them from the other parties. Since the GFA was signed over 48,000 people have stopped voting SF/SDLP and they need to be brought back into the fold, reassuring them that their elected representatives are actually working towards their goal will go some way to doing just that.
The GFA allows for a border poll but only if the SoS is confident of success so at the very least we need to know what evidence the SoS needs to see in order to be confident. If it’s a particular statistic from the election results, at least we know. If it’s a particular statistic from the census results, at least we know. If it’s a particular statistic from the polls/surveys, at least we know. If it is a combination, at least we will know.
A massive, life-changing decision like this should not be subject to the vagueness displayed in the GFA and needs to be nailed down
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I love movies and every so often you get a line that resonates. I reckon the Joker in The Dark Knight sums up nationalism’s philosophic approach to a united Ireland, along the lines of this:
“I’m like a dog chasing a car. If I ever catch one, I won’t know what to do with it!”
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I’m generally a fan of your contributions Carrick, but I believe you’ve used that line on here before…..change the record!
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Okay Charlie, nationalists are like eunuchs peering into a brothel window.
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carrick ,
re. dogs and Nats – I think the parallell does hold – when it comes to Nationalism Irish or British – it is pretty instinctive and territorial behaviour – marking territory via songs/music and of course leaving their mark/flags on lampposts.
re. Movies – have you seen any of the True Detective series on Sky? Really impressive – certainly ‘movie’ standard.
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Couple of points on the Scottish scene.
Seriously a few quid at 3/1 on the referendum might not be that wild a bet.
Winning the UK lottery is roughly 14 million to one.
14,000,000/1 or 3/1, scary thought, well for unionists anyway, that 5 months out from the referendum the odds are dropping that the UK as it stands may end.
FJH is the oldest declared regular blogger on here.
Lets go back 60 years to 1954, the SNP had something like 400 paid up members in the entire country.
Most would have regarded them as a joke outfit, like a Green candidate in Sandy Row, is there one?
In 1954 Scots would have laughed at the thought of Home Rule parliament in Edinburgh.
The people had tried and failed, see the 2 million signatures on the 1950 petition.
Home Rule parliament in Edinburgh, forget it.
A majority SNP Goverment running it, are you drunk?
A full legal democratic referendum to be held on Scottish Independence, eh more chance of Linfield banning the singing of Billy Boys.
1954, it’s fantasy island.
2014, a 3/1 bet.
It’s a funny old world.
Btw, who knows what this century will bring on the political front.
There might even be unionists sitting in the Dail.
Now thats just silly.
I think.
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I’m sure Scots in 1507 could never have foreseen the twists and turns their nation would take over the next 200 years; enemies of France, faith-change, power-brokers in London to name the three major ones in politics and national power and that’s even without thinking about the economic and agricultural changes.
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On the issue of the national economy I would tend to share Sammy’s caution. While there are some positive signs of recovery they seem to be somewhat isolated. Housing prices are increasing but so far they are confined to Dublin and very much certain parts of Dublin. Driving through Howth last weekend, a salubrious suburb of the capital, I couldn’t but help notice the sudden infestation of “for sale” signs and renewed building work on half-finished homes (mansions, really) that had been previously abandoned for the last four or five years. That could be taken for an up-swing in consumer confidence. On the other hand going through the nearby town of Swords, in socio-economic terms a middle-of-the-road place, the number of boarded-up shops, empty retail premises, abandoned homes, closing down sales, etc. would give one anything but confidence. A recovery of sorts is happening alright but it is dangerously lopsided and severely limited in scope.
In relation to a referendum on reunification I would share BD’s (cautious?) optimism. Though economic matters will be crucial there will be more to it than that. The north-east of Ireland is not Scotland. I wouldn’t discount ethno-communal one-upmanship as a factor. As it is the Orange Order, DUP, UUP, TUV and various “fleggers” are doing more to create a pro-reunification vote than any amount of socio-economic policy docs by SF or the SDLP.
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I think we would all be very naive to believe that there are no behind the scenes questions being asked regarding the circumstances required to call for a border poll.
Such questions are not ready to be openly debated in public due to the tense political situation in Stormont but given that the British establishment is becoming quite cosy with Sinn Fein along with the recent elevation in anglo- Irish relations I would be very shocked if the issue is not already on a roll behind closed doors.
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Is behind the scenes good enough Robin? Is the fact that this issue might (or might not) be talked about behind the scenes good enough?
I take your point about the sensitive nature of the topic but setting the criteria in stone would be a transparent way of protecting both communities and the British Government.
It shouldn’t be up to a SoS, a person none of us voted for, to make a decision without clearly defined parameters in which they can make the decision. Absurd example I know but what is stop our current SoS calling a border poll when there is a nationalist First Minister because she feels that this gives her confidence that a border poll will succeed? Or the next SoS thinking that a nationalist First minister isn’t enough and prefers to see something in the NILT instead?
The whole situation is way too vague and needs clarity – something the nationalist parties should be calling for.
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Séamas,
On the point of ” Though economic matters will be crucial there will be more to it than that”
Small economies are always more volatile than larger ones – there will always be an element of risk (for both sides) in joining up. Regarding the recovery I’m (like you and BD?) always looking for shoots of the green variety – and there is much to be positive about – but it is premature to be getting ahead of ourselves with talk of land acquisition.
Subterranean debts levels (mortgage, personal debt) on top of ‘official’ debt levels are still a major problem – I think about 3-5 years may see the South in a position to talk about acquisition of Green Field number 4 – and be taken seriously.
ps Heard the guy from NAMA on RTE radio yesterday – and I have to say he sounded sensible and convincing.
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re. ” Though economic matters will be crucial there will be more to it than that”
Left out this bit below.
I think that is only partially true – it is true if there is no major problem with the (Southern) economy – but if there is a major problem with the economy – (as currently) then other consideration will be largely irrelevant.
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‘In my opinion any framework needs to be completed by an independent organisation who will work hand in hand with the guarantors of the GFA, the British and Irish Governments.’
You would like to think that the formation of such a body would be one of SF’s requirements for participation in a coalition government, but who knows? Brian Feeney has written at length about SF’s lack of wit in getting their core political demand into the mainstream.
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As I said in the piece antain, SF completing this exercise is futile because it will be simply dismissed by half the NI population as nothing more than SF propaganda. It will be put in the bin if it is even picked up.
Plus SF do not have access to the Ministries and could not possibly be expected to find out the impact of PAYE and all taxes generated through good/services sold in NI going to Dublin instead of London.
Which takes me on to another bug bearer of mine…
…massive companies like Asda, Tesco, Carphone Warehouse etc. are all registered in England and send their tax cheques to London – at what point in the process are the taxes which were generated as a consequences of goods/services sold in NI apportioned to NI? Could it be that NI is not the financial basket-case we have always been led to believe?
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Morheus,
re. “The whole situation is way too vague and needs clarity – something the nationalist parties should be calling for.”
I don’t think you should be asking for the answer to a political question unless you have confidence that the answer is not going to be counter productive.I think what Robin suggest is probably the case – there is probably an understanding behind the scenes and we have to factor in the startling the Unionist horses. Personally I disagree with your premise that clarification is required at the moment – clarification should be sought when the position is more favourable – and certainly after the South is looking healthier – otherwsie you will have a series of Unionists just trotting out anti-South economic propaganda.
re. ” Could it be that NI is not the financial basket-case we have always been led to believe?”
I think the Barnet formula is widely regarded as being ‘fair’ and Green Field Number 4 is not shown as being economically healthy(basket-case).
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We certainly need to see the figures. It suits Unionists and the British Government to tell us there is a subvention of £10bn therefore the South could not afford a United Ireland. An independent think tank, would I believe conclude that an All Ireland economy with economic policy tailored to the economic needs of the island rather than south east England would be best in the medium term. The sum of additional revenue generated and savings made from synergies and the removal of duplication of services would dwarf any subvenion required at present due to the imbalance in the Northern economy.
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Enda,
there is a bit of a problem with the ‘synergies’ argument. Assuming for the moment that ‘synergies’ would outstrip any subvention – that would of course not concern the voters in the North regarding a UI.
Voters will ask one economic question – will I be better or worse off in a UI?
The fact that it might be more efficient to join with the South will be irrelevant to that question – the question will be – can the Englezes pay to keep me in the manner I like to be kept?
The indications are that Engleze will hold on to Green Field number 4 as long as most people in Green Field number 4 want it to be so and the relative cost to the Engleze is tiny compared to its potential cost to Ireland (3 other Green Fields) – the British economy is 10 bigger(I’m guessing here) than the South – and as we know from their days of land grabbing/empire building – they do like to accumulate bits of other peoples territory.
If of course oil or shiny metals are discovered (in Green Field Number 4) – that will make them keener than ever to keep hold.
A UI is only ever going to be a runner when there proper and sustainable economic prosperity in the South – and the track record since partition – lets be honest here – has been piss poor.
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Voters will ask one economic question – will I be better or worse off in a UI?”
And all an independent think tank will have to do is mention the Human Development Index. Ireland is 7th Britain is 27th. Welfare rates in the South are far more generous. Education is free. Universal Health care is coming in 2019. Its not much of an argument.
As regards the South’s economy since partition. There is no doubt it has not reached its potential. By the mid 90s though the Celtic Tiger was roaring. There was a genuine economic boom before FF overspent, eroded competitiveness, fueled a property boom and failed to regulate the banks. There is no reason the Irish economy cannot go back to where it left off before the advent of a property bubble. In fact it is well on it’s way with growth at around 3.5%, unemployment falling rapidly and the balance of payments widening. I read the business news daily. Things are looking good.
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a few observations on the GFA and why nationalism was sold out
1 The requirement of the SoS to call for the border poll, , not only is it a woolly stricture open to discretion of someone but that someone is the occupiers representative who obviously is not independent
2 The requirement of a vote in the south to allow us in, this was an added impediment which never existed before, why would northern nationalists have to be “permitted” to their nationhood?
3 The lack of deadlines and recriminations for failure to implement issues which were supposedly important for the nationalist people, cultural equality for example (especially the Irish Language act)
4 The removal of arts 2 and 3 and acceptance of the legal and moral right for the border to exist (acceptance of the unionist veto)
I am sure there are more if we sit and think of it but basically the British did not move an inch from their constitutional stance while nationalism caved in on all fronts.
There is no now use whinging about aspects of the GFA. Idiots voted for it after a PR spin so we now have to deal with it.
I believe that it is now time to go back to the negotiating table and renegotiate the GFA from scratch. It is clearly not up to scratch and is detrimental to progress.
As far as the economic record is concerned. It is clear to me that the south has been better of since breaking the link from England, at partition the north was the hub of industry, not now, its economy was vibrant, not now, its population has grown and is growing with huge increases in the standard of life which makes the north look like the slum of Ireland. Also to argue that the south cannot afford the north – I wonder if it can afford the west.
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1. I agree with your assessment. I think that a SoS, someone who none of us voted for, shouldn’t be allowed to call a poll (or not) on nothing more than whim. Getting objective, concrete criteria in place is the main point behind this piece.
2. I think this was put in place to protect RoI so that they can be sure that the citizens want Ireland to be reunified again and not just have 2m+ ‘Northerners’ simply thrust upon them without a full appreciation of what that entails.
3. Totally agree on this – it is shockingly bad that 16 years later chunks of the GFA have not been implemented. It was “founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos and aspirations of both communities” but I am not seeing much respect, equality, or just and equal treatment.
4. The unionist veto does not exist – and this points takes me through the rest of your post nicely. It is a myth. The constitutional future of Northern Ireland is in the hands of the people of Northern Ireland and both the British and Irish Governments have signed up to implementing the will of the majority. In 1998 the will of the majority was to remain in the UK but that can change and quite frankly if nationalist don’t make it happen then on their own heads be it. Nationalist can make a UI happen if they really want it but in my eyes they don’t know if they want it or not because there are too many unknowns, hence the other part of my piece to get an independent organisation to work with the British and Irish Governments to come up with answers to key questions on important issues like health, education, social security,political representation etc.
Bottom line we need to get information to the people of Ireland so they can make an informed decision about what is best for them and their families.
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The assertion the unionists veto does not exist is a false one in my mind, they have the veto, it is called the border and they can keep it there so long as they are the majority. This contrived majority imposing a border is an affront to democracy and to legitimise it in any way is wrong. This acceptance of the border is what I mean by accepting the unionist veto. To say that we can change it by a vote internal to the contrived territory is just indulging that veto and again giving it credibility. What a total mess we are in. Great negotiations fellows.
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I do not know why nationalism should do anything, I am happy just upsetting every attempt to normalise the north, continuously frustrating any move to make it as normal as Finchley and await the day nationalists are in the majority, then we can choose to make a green Ulster or join the south. Either way unionism loses.
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There’s nothing like damaging the future prosperity of your family, friends and neighbours in a vain attempt to obtain your birthright.
Let us all know how that works out for those joining the armed struggle to condemn normalisation.
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I can get by and so can they – I can even turn it around and say that if unionists want to jeopardise the futures of their children and so on they would do what I want, mutually assured economic deprivation. What is this about armed struggle, are the unionists in the East Antrim UDA upset?
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The demoralization of the Protestant population continues apace. Although Belfast Telegraph attitudinal surveys have to be considered with a great deal of caution, it’s sad to see how twice as many young Protestants than Catholics surveyed recently see themselves leaving the North and how much more pessimistic they are about they prospects of a lasting political solution.
‘However, there were significant religious dimensions to the findings. For example, proportionately more young Protestants wanted to leave Northern Ireland. More than 60% who wanted to stay were Catholics, just over twice as many as Protestants.’
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Having the Viceroy/SOS decide – admittedly doesn’t look good but I don’t really think it is an issue of significant concern.
Any changes to the GFA are not going to come about without Unionism getting something in return – trading the above for something Unionism wants is unlikely to be sensible.
Enda, you seem to be in denial about the extent of the difficulties in the South – it is not unpatriotic to be realistic about the absolute pigs Mickey that was made of the economy by Berty et al. The IMF are barely out the door – and still having a say in economic policy and people are talking about re-unification – this is neither sensible or realistic.
Morpheus, I agree in principle with what you say but tactically I see no advantage in it – at the moment – and may well be counter productive.
…now if that oil well of the coast of Cork turns out to be as good as suggested – then that could be a game changer(or a game speeder-upper).
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I am not in denial at all. I tend to focus on the present and the future rather than the past.
I wonder will the trade off for implementation of the GFA in full be agreement of an opposition at Stormont.
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We are not ready for an opposition yet because the parties have not done enough to prove that they can be trusted to make decisions for the good of ALL the citizens of Northern Ireland.
Bottom line is that mummy and daddy (the British and Irish Governments) took the stabilizers off the bicycle too early and didn’t make sure that we knew how to ride the bike before expecting us to fly solo – now we are heading for the ditch.
It’s time the GFA guarantors created a committee of effective MPs and TDs who can take the reigns to:
1. fully implement the GFA,
2. put the Haass Proposals to referendum,
3. take party politics out of projects like the A5,
4. find ways of getting Invest NI to Invest in all of NI,
5. make the NCA accountable to the same high standards as the PSNI before letting ‘em rip,
6. finding out how many hundreds of millions will be taken out of the NI economy through these Welfare Reforms and come up with a detailed plan on how to mitigate the loss and minimize the impact
…generally get us back on track again.
The unionist parties will not accept the symbolism (and that’s all it is) of a nationalist First Minister so will chuck the toys out of the pram by manufacturing another ‘crisis’ and then pulling the plug on Stormont so I think an announcement regarding the above would help focus minds. They told Paisley what “Plan B” was and I think a reminder wouldn’t be out of order.
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Enda,
re. “I am not in denial at all. I tend to focus on the present and the future rather than the past.”
Irish budgets are in line with IMF requirements – that is the here and now.
re. “I wonder will the trade off for implementation of the GFA in full be agreement of an opposition at Stormont.”
That is worth a punt – but I think the fundamental ‘problem’ with the GFA is its ambiguity which allowed Nats to think they were voting for something and Unionists to think they were voting for something. I don’t think the Engleze ( or Irish governments ) will be in the business of clarifying something they think is helping to keep the peace – you only need to look at the flag dispute to see that.
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Morpheus,
Good article – but have to say I disagree with almost everything in it. Did we ever cross swords on Slugger – as BD will confirm I do like a good spat.
As mentioned earlier it is the ambiguity of the GFA that allows both ‘sides’ to believe that it ‘proper’ implementation would benefit them.
During the flags debate both side quoted the GFA as reason both why the Union flag should and should not be flying. With the both governments failing to enlighten them.
Although not minimising it’s significance – the only really practical ‘Nationalist’ element of the GFA not implemented is the Irish Language Act? What else is there that Unionists will not argue means something else?
I think Nats need to be careful what they wish for as Northern Ireland is largely* constitutionally lies with the UK – further definition of the GFA may not be to our(Nats) liking.
I also disagree about the Haas proposals which in my understanding outlaw the wearing of ‘paramilitary’ clothing during parades – you can really see the dissers having a field day at Easter if the PSNI are trudging through the ‘sacred’ graves to arrest the men in the berets?
Also Haas makes no provision for the flying of the tricoclour – something Belfast council could decide to fly (and we await Faha’s analysis) if not this council election, then the one after next if it goes the way of us ‘good’ guys?
Nats are better off without Haas, without clarification of the GFA and better off without the NCA (or other British security services) unless they have concession on Southern security input and probably better off without confirming the rules for a UI – until such times as the South is ready to engage in the debate i.e. when it is well clear of its economic sickbed.
…the policy of quietly hollowing out the union from the inside should continue.
*unlike pregnancy the constitutional position is not an absolute
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Meant to add, tactically it was a good idea for Nats to sign up to Haas – knowing Unionists couldn’t swallow it.
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The problem with flegs is Peter Mandelson’s and SF’s mess, when he introduced the Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 he tied it up to ensure that the only time a tricolour can be legally flown is when An Uachtarain visits. And even then the Union flag must also be flown. Remember when they kick up, SF agreed to this.
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Croiteir,
that is a good point – which could be dealt with (possibly) by having a trade off for Orange Parades in Belfast for the flying of the Irish flag – assuming the Haas proposals are not implemented and Belfast has a Nat majority (in the council elections after next) and assuming that the law on flags is a devolved matter and/or SOS/Viceroy will play ball.
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It is in the gift of the SoS
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I think a power that would be ceded to the natives from the Viceroy – if Haass were implemented. If the natives did agree on something e.g. Irish flags for parades in Belfast (how ever unlikely that might be) I’m sure herself couldn’t be seen to be holing up a deal.
Incidentally I’m assuming the ‘Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 ‘ covers council buildings as well as Stormo?
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That is a good question, under order it may not, but it really is ill defined and makes me wonder if that is on purpose
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What kind of nationalists are you if your nationality is bought and sold? Mine is nothing to do with economics. I’m my mother’s son, rich or poor.
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It is not only a question of what an individual will do but what will the general populace do and why
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