(Also published on Slugger O’Toole)
I had an interesting chat today with John Barry. A fellow Dubliner but a far more interesting and indeed public character than that may suggest.
John is a Green Party candidate in the forthcoming Council elections standing in the Abbey ward of the new North Down and Ards Council. He was co-opted onto the existing North Down Council when Steven Agnew was elected as an MLA and will be seeking to retain the Green seat in the forthcoming elections but he is much more than that. John Barry has been a key strategist for the Green Party in NI since 2003. He was a joint chair of the party until 2009. He is a senior academic and Professor of History and Politics at QUB.
Rather than going over predictable ground such as the traditional Green “boxsets” such as sustainable energy, global warming, and environmental fundamentalism (eg: by the likes of the fundamentalist wing of the DUP), We talked about strategic planning and how the Party intended to develop and grow their vote in the years ahead. He expressed frustration at how the mainstream media tended to only contact the party when an obviously “Green” issue was at stake. This was interesting given his views below. It was clear to me that John still retains a key idealogical and strategic development role within the party.
We kicked off with a discussion about the All Ireland nature of the party (naturally, given my own bias). John was a prime mover behind the all Ireland nature of the Green Party and I was curious as to why. It was a simple enough matter for him. “The environment doesn’t stop at the border” being the show stopper. We discussed Fracking in Fermanagh in depth and the need for a cross border public response to this. I need hardly add that he wasn’t a fan. He also pointed out that we are a small Island and we’re stronger (better) together on these non partisan issues. John also emphasised the east / west importance and commonality of environmental issues and the links between green politics in Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales
We moved onto the strategic targets for the Greens in the forthcoming elections at Council Level. I deliberately avoided the subject of the Euro vote as it has been covered in depth by others and the motivations of voters may be entirely different.
Currently the Green Party have 3 councillors. John himself in North Down plus 1 in Castlereagh and 1 in Down. I asked what the plan was for the May elections. John candidly said that 5 seats would be a realistic and achievable objective for this electoral battle. His target seats were interesting. South Belfast is a definite target seat. A Castlereagh hold is being worked hard on and a possible Lisburn gain is in sight for the party. East Belfast is on the horizon but interestingly Omagh apparently is emerging as a distinct possibility with candidate Ciaran McClean generating strong party optimism west of the Bann. A genuine breakthrough if it happens.
We moved onto the ideological stuff eventually. It was fascinating. John knows his stats, I’ll give him that. It is well known that the Greens favour reducing the voting age to 16. The 16 year olds agree with that although almost nobody else does but Johns argument was one I would agree with. The average 16 year old is much more politically savvy now than the average 18 year old was 20 years ago. I argued that the Greens would be likely to benefit electorally from younger voters. He agreed. Hmmmmph.
We then went onto another entire strategic planet regarding Green policy on Gay Marriage, Female choice, trade union rights and some very interesting stuff regarding the Alliance Party and their inability to agree policy on any of the above. Very clear green water was put between both parties- subject for another blog perhaps.
The next topic is one I could write chapters on also. John’s experience as a Dubliner on North Down Council and his thoughts on the administration in Stormont. I have some personal experience of both myself.
When John was co-opted onto the council to replace Steven Agnew he was, understandably, the only Dub on the Council. The most unionist council there is. He was unsure what reception to expect. It was, for the most part, polite and “diplomatic” if not overwhelmingly welcoming. Until, that is, a certain DUP senior member leaned across to pass a smart comment about his “funny” accent “sotto voce”. John leaned back and replied “sotto voce” “I’m your worst nightmare mate. A Taig with a PHD”
Our discussion on Stormont is best summed up with a succinct quote by John which I thought summed a lot up with very few words: “We tend to elect negotiators, not legislators” Enough said.
We ended our discussion with a reflection on President Michael D Higgins meeting with Queen Elizabeth today. As Equals. That is a true Republican ideal. It is also a degree of progress. John thought, and I agree with him. that Martin McGuinness attending the state banquet tonight was leadership and stepping ahead of the electorate. He made the very astute point that being a step ahead of your consituency was good politics. Being five steps ahead is a very risky place to be unless you are a very confident politician.
May is looking interesting.
benmadigan said:
love this statement “I’m your worst nightmare mate. A Taig with a PHD”
may there be lots more of them!!
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carrickally said:
Very interesting gent. One thing I’ve found with southerners in a political setting is how personable they are; it’s an almost American trait, perhaps something that has been consciously cultivated, perhaps it’s a small “r” republican thing although I have noticed it with some English politicians too so I’d weigh for the former. Much different from our usual output of strange characters with some notable exceptions on the backbenches.
Benmadigan, I’d say there’s more taigs with PhDs than Prods at the minute and, judging by the awfulness of educational role models for them (that could well be a guest post, if BD would allow me at some point in the future?) something that will continue.
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bangordub said:
Cheers Carrickally,
Bring on the guest post by all means,
I’d suggest a read of Jonathon Powell, Great hatred, little room. It details the negotiation skills and approaches by Unionists and Nationalists during the good Friday agreement. Very interesting read which suggests exactly what you state above
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benmadigan said:
Carrickally – i have already posted a series of thoughts on Protestant achievements in education which are available for everyone to read.
One thing I may not have made clear in them, though I do analyse reasons and propose solutions, is that I feel very, very sorry for working class Protestants. They are the victims of appalling leadership, sectarianism and paramilitary organisations.
Their poor educational performance has long been known – I personally remember a Westminster Committee report of at least 10 years ago. Even Dawn Purvis back in her day in PUP tried to do something and of course got nowhere.
I applaud anyone who gets a PhD and I applaud a “Taig” who gets a PhD.
They may well be the DUP and OO’s worst nightmare ( and John Barry was perspicacious enough to point this out) but they will drive this country forward and they represent our hopes for a better future.
If bright people like them don’t, who will?
Chittick?That shining intellect of the OO, the so-called grand-master/secretary/whatever of Befast who told Protestants not to earn the irish language?
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Charlie said:
“Taig with a PhD” – What other kind of PhD holder is there? Just kidding 😉
Proud to say since I started my job ‘Dr. Charlie’ is also known to be viewed as a “Taig with a PhD” by some colleagues. Feels kinda nice.
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Charlie said:
More seriously, regarding the broader point of education:
I often wonder about how much the sheer timing of the marching season etc. has on educational achievement. Apart from Ben Madigan’s points regarding role models which is at the crux of the issue; i often imagine you could have a young protestant boy, living on a loyalist estate studying away to better himself and getting a bang on the door near every night between now and 12th July to go to band practice, collect stuff for the bonfire, knock on doors to raise money for uniforms, equipment etc..
All of that is a lot of work and overlaps nearly 100% with the exam months of May and June. Obviously, a role model would say, “do your studying, it’s more important” but apart from that, if you removed all of marching season work, I often wonder how much better would educational underachievement become.
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Charlie said:
In other news, Ross Brown the green candidate for europe has posted up a link to the paddypower betting website. He says it’s probably worth a punt. I agree! At 16/1 on Alex Attwood winning I seat I think that is definitely worth a bet. The guy is either going to come 3rd and win or 4th and lose narrowly. I would like to think that the bloggers here are more savvy than a paddypower bookmaker on political likelihoods. Maybe it could be used to boost SDLP turnout lol. Everyone who’s have thinking of turning out puts 20 pounds on it and goes out to vote.
I remember Alasdair McDonnell used to talk about a loyalist patient of his in his GP practice who suddenly started asking McDonnell if he fancied his chances at winning (in 2005). McDonnell was surprised and asked him why he was hopeful, and his answer was that the bookies got him a great double – Rangers for the title and McDonnell for Westminster. That was the year Celtic were 2 pts up on the last day and blew it against Motherwell, so it was clearly close but unlikely. Same with McDonnell. Anyway this fella start going into loyalist bars canvassing people to vote for McDonnell and claims to have garnered 20 votes lol. Maybe someone could show him paddypower’s odds this year.
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Charlie said:
Halved to 8/1. hmmm. I mustn’t be the only one who has spotted this.
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Séamas Ó Sionnaigh (An Sionnach Fionn) said:
Great interview. I notice myself that there seems to be a lot more contact, on a personal level, between people north and south. Maybe it’s because I live in the capital but you certainly hear a lot more Ulster accents on the streets of Dublin than you used to do. Several of my more recent co-workers are from Belfast, Armagh and Tyrone. Conversely Belfast and Derry friends are surprised by how many people from the rest of the country are now resident in their cities. One way or another a national polity is re-emerging after decades of division.
There is something rather strange about the old Unionist regime at Stormont spending so much time and effort attempting to ghettoize the Nationalist community in the north-east of the country only for Unionists some 90 years later to put so much time and effort into ghettoizing themselves. It is an almost wilful form of communal suicide.
Now we have this latest act of insanity over GAA tops as the TUV, etc. call for a modern Statutes of Kilkenny to be enacted in order to ban items of clothing believed to be “Irish”. Do these folk even realise how this plays outside the Northern Pale? That it tarnishes them as a sort of European Taliban?.
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carrickally said:
SoS, “Now we have this latest act of insanity over GAA tops as the TUV, etc. call for a modern Statutes of Kilkenny to be enacted in order to ban items of clothing believed to be “Irish”. Do these folk even realise how this plays outside the Northern Pale? That it tarnishes them as a sort of European Taliban?.”
Ever been into a bar with a football top on? If you’ve tried it in Belfast, you may as well have Statutes written.
Dare I suggest that the TUV are simply mimicking the strategy of the great offended and attempting to attack symbols of a culture? I’m typing this up at Queens and if I were into hyperbole, I’d say I was surrounded by GAA tops! The only thing that’s stopping me concentrating on the real task I should be doing is my internet noseyness rather than the horror of a bogtrotter in a Donegal top!
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Séamas Ó Sionnaigh (An Sionnach Fionn) said:
All true but surely Unionists expect more of their political leaders than appeals to the lowest common denominator? I hate the term “tribal” in relation to the conflict in the north-east, or historically between Ireland and Britain. It is a deliberate pejorative designed to confuse peoples understanding of the conflict. However banning clothing because it is deemed to be too “Irish” is the basest form of tribalism, with plenty of colonial supremacism thrown into the mix as well. We can’t have people looking too “native”?
I’ve been to Queens three times. As an Irish citizen in Ireland should I be offended by the name and regard the institution bearing it as a cold house for na Gaeil? Or should I just accept it as a historical name that some of my fellow citizens have a deep affection for and respect it on that basis? Personally I have no problem with the latter.
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bangordub said:
Enjoyin this lads!
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carrickally said:
Absolutely SoS, unfortunately tribalism rules, otherwise we wouldn’t have the political parties we’ve got running the circus, sorry I mean show! You raise an interesting point about names too; renaming is very 20th century – Sackville St, Amiens St and Kingsbridge Stations in Dublin to mention but three. Of course, it could be argued that placenames have always changed, and frequently between different languages. Isn’t Dublin itself an Anglicisation of the Gaelic for Black Pool?
On John Barry, I voted for the Greens at the last Euro election and will more than likely do so again. My concerns about them being an all-island party are overridden in a Euro context by the fact that all the parties from here have invariably joined some form of pan-European grouping anyway so we may as well cut out the middleman at this level. And their green is more of a Nassau shade than a mickey one! 😉
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Charlie said:
That’s sensible enough approach Carrickally. The last election I was eligible to vote in was the London mayoral elections where I voted for the Green’s Jenny Jones and her colleagues for London Assembly. It makes me even more glad we have a PR system. Even non-FPTP elections there like the London assembly still have a part FPTP component. It’s a complete Labour-Tory stitch up.
I’ll be lucky to vote at all this time round living in SE Asia.
I noticed the greens have announced a slate of candidates across S and E Belfast. Seem like a nice bunch. I think people would be more concerned if the Green party wasn’t pan national, or pan-european or just plain global as environmental issues are global too.
I almost think that if there is a hung parliament next year with the Labour party as the largest party, I would almost think that the Alliance and the SDLP would do worse than to request the voting system to Westminster be altered here for the price of supporting the government. We already have a different system for electing councillors to the rest of UK, electing MEPs (STV not d’Hondt) and for our local assembly. So FPTP for westminster here is already the odd man out. Government could sell it on the backs of “Northern Ireland is a special case…blah blah….historic divisions blah blah…..aids reconciliation blah blah”
This system would give the likes of the greens a bigger say if people give a No.1 and transfer. That said they were opposed to AV referendum on the basis that it cements tribal voting. Thing is, any mistakes AV makes FPTP shares all of them. I hope the voting reform campaigners haven’t given up. I remain the local Tory activists standing on my road in North Westminster lecturing the plebs on how bad reform was and that the Labour party, who they normally disagree with, are opposed to. I butted in and said “of course they are opposed they benefit almost as much as you do!”
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carrickally said:
There’s a wafer thin difference between Labour/Lib Dem/Tory policies at macro level. They are all partners in the neo-liberal takeover that has trapped us all as worshippers at the temple of cashandcard.
There’s never likely to be a revolution while people are dependent on credit ratings to protect their individual worlds; that’s the real challenge for the greens to attempt any radical change and I think they know that they must work the system as best they can.
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Political Tourist said:
I wish any Green well.
Most folk have figured out there’s a link between pollution and certain types of illness.
I do worry about a section of working class kids in the North left with Rangers shirts and flute bands as their only life skills.
Jaffas with F all is as much a disaster as 50 years of anti catholic rule.
Recent events in Larne might be the future.
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