It’s nearly “Poppy Season” again, the time of year when everyone is defined by their wearing, or not as the case may be, of this symbol of remembrance of those who died in the cause of the British State.
Of course, in this part of the world it is another opportunity to define identity. I will never wear a poppy due to members of my own family being victims of Crown Forces back in the 1920’s. As my Mother would say, I would be “haunted” by them. Nevertheless I fully respect the right of others to remember their fallen in whatever manner they see fit with the proviso that it causes no offence. The difficulty here is that the British Army and their supporters live cheek by jowl with many who suffered at their well armed, well financed and well equipped hands. Memories are long in this part of the world.
There is also the awkward fact that Unionists are still to acknowledge that their fellow countrymen have a right to remember our own fallen. That point has never once been conceded by an Ulster Unionist to my knowledge although the Queen of England did just this on her visit to Dublin with her visit to the Garden of Remembrance on Parnell Square.
Despite all the talk of “shared futures” and “equality” etc, Unionism still appears to be in a state of imagined siege. I worry what certain Unionists would do without it. It must be clear that the South is unlikely to invade in the near future yet a narrative of “Cultural invasion” is being pushed. This is insecurity of the highest
order. Micháel Martin made an interesting speech yesterday accusing the current Government of neglecting the national question. While this is undoubtedly a ploy to counter SF south of the border he does have a point regarding Enda.
My idea of equality is simple. When I can wear my Easter Lily walking along Main St Bangor, When I can go see a game in my local with my national flag flying outside without annoying anyone. When I can help organise a St Patricks Day parade through the town. Then I’ll start believing in the shared future agenda.
In the meantime, the whole Poppy thing, which will extend for weeks, is just Déja vu for us all.
"We in coming days may be" 
I agree – the whole equality and shared space is a polished up “croppy lie down” policy. A true shared space would entail joint authority.
As For M Martin he is correct. But he is also hypocritical as FF are registered as a party in the north but yet they are not present at the Haas talks. He is cynically using the north as a fottball.
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Well said. I spent my first St Patrick’s Day here this year and was saddened to see that it went unnoticed and unacknowledged in Rathfriland. Unless of course you count the Union Jack that someone hung from a lamppost outside the Catholic primary school sometime during the night of March 16th.
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Thanks, I’ve deliberately opened up a few points here, I expect unionists to bring up the Thomas Begley and Castlederg events. I’m actually hoping they do. This is a huge learning experience for Unionism. Perhaps C’Ally or others will engage?
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For me it boils down to the fact that the ‘shared future’ agenda is a load of bollocks. When is this shared future going to materialise? 10 years time? 20? 100?
Rathfriland football side Drumgath won the Down Intermediate Championship trophy last week, but you wouldn’t know it to walk through the town. ‘Official’ Union flags and bunting hang throughout the town and arterial routes from mid-June to the end of August, alongside the Loyalist Arch which celebrates (amongst other things) the B-Specials.
A Union flag flies in the town square 365 days a year, and countless other Union flags, Rangers flags, UVF flags etc come and go throughout the year. Shared future me arse. Any chance of a shared present?
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RJC,
Every single point in that, I agree with.
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Just on a side note RJC, you asked about public submissions to query the new electoral wards. I think the commission deadline passed in September. I’m guessing that you believed it was more natural for Rathfriland to be condensed into Newry Mourne than a council based in distant Armagh City or Portadown. I’m not sure how the Commission came up with the decision to take Ballyward out of ABC but still include your home down. Also when they were dismembering old councils I’m sure some in Saintfield were hoping to be moved into Lisburn/Castlereagh as its pretty obvious this commuter village has nothing in common with Newry.
Apologises for going off topic BD 🙂 just think RJC will miss my reply if on the other posting.
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Cheers mekonged! I suspected I may well have been too late to submit a query on this very issue, so I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Rathfriland appears to have ping ponged between Newry and Banbridge districts dependent upon who shouts the loudest. It certainly has the feel of a frontier town about it 🙂
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Mekongd,
No problem, I have a loose hold on the topic thing, I prefer to let the conversation take us where it will, Sometimes that is much more interesting 😉
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Uncomfortable as it may be for the British-apologists in the Irish media establishment to acknowledge it the Royal British Legion Poppy commemorates all those who served in the British Armed Forces in all of Britain’s wars during the 20th and 21st centuries. That includes those who fought against the Irish in our War of Independence and those who served in the north-east of our country from 1969-2005.
To wear the British Poppy as a citizen of Ireland is to remember and honour the memory of those British soldiers who murdered, maimed, tortured and oppressed countless Irish men, women and children throughout the 20th century.
It is the equivalent of an Israeli laying a wreath to honour the service of German soldiers during WWII.
In the 1930s Éamon de Valera as Taoiseach sent a wreath made up of orange and white lilies to WWI commemorations in London. I would think that the orange lily or similar is a more suitable symbol for an Irish commemoration of WWI dead and one reflective of our own traditions.
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There is not a day goes by here I fail to learn something
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An annual farce.
I am looking forward to reading 718 threads on Slugger O’Toole.
Or maybe I should just re-read the 538 from 2012.
Or 427 from 2011.
Or 319 from 2010.
And some suitable pious letsgetalongerist shared future, why cant we all respect each other by wearing a poppy to commemorate British dead….and not commemorate Irish dead.
Ah the letsgetalongerist version of “shared”.
What else am I looking out for.
A DUP MLA (previous winners McCausland and that Paul fella from Lagan Valley) winning the annual reward for highlighting the plight of some shop assistant “victimised” by having his/her identity ignored by. Employer (previous winners Dunnes Store Crumlin Road anda. Discount store in Lisburn).
And some nonsense from SDLP like Margaret Ritchie “Im not afraid to wear a poppy” (2010). The SDLP Conference a week ahead of the Remembrance thing hasn’t actually had a member wear one.
Of course SDLP is more vulnerable to criticism from Sinn Fein on the issue….but look out for Mairtin O’Muilleoir getting all pious with his EIGHT persons of Faith and maybe his Poet Laureate (Im not making this up) will write a wee poem for us.
And last but not least look out for the assorted West Britons in BBC and UTV Newsrooms (shared space Ms Travers, Ms Purdy, Mr Watson, Mr Clark) and spot anyone who dares to go off message ( Mr Tourish up in Derry perhaps). At times like this I actually WANT to see Joe Brolly interviewed on the News.
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Lol Brilliant, Mr Fitz,
Any chance we could get you back blogging?
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Come on FJH, get that blog going again!!
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There is a fine line between Remembrance and Glorification, which is constantly crossed by the BBC, the Army, the British & Unionist politicians and the British Legion, to name but a few.
The Poppy and Armistice Day have descended into a shameless Army Recruitment campaign for the deranged, the lost and the gullible. The next generation of cannon fodder mixed in with a bunch of opportunistic psycopaths, all basking in the kudos afforded by the unthinking public’s adoration of uniforms, medals and drums, all ready to give some 3rd world population a hiding.
If the message from the First World War was about anything, it was surely, the opposite, ie: de-militarisation and avoidance of war.
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Well said.
Today there was a recruitment caravan in Bangor for the British Army manned by 3 teenagers. I was tempted, very tempted to go up and ask a few pertinent questions. It would have been unfair to the boys in question. Not a sign of an officer or NCO mind you. They’re all redundant no doubt. The British Army seems to have an appetite for young blood raised on rhetoric and promises. They seem to be less able when it comes to looking after their wounded and retired, hence the multiple charities
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I thought with cutbacks over the last two decades that the British Army had halved in composition. Also with the courageous Tory rebels stopping another ‘misadventure’ in Syria maybe we’ll begin to see a reappraisal of the glorification of jingoism especially when Scotland goes independent eg I’m certain all sensible Scottish Unionists were shamed with all that mad bouncing around Ibrok.
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Regarding membership of the British Forces.
At no point was anybody living in the area that makes up NI forced to join.
The English, Scots or Welsh didn’t have any choice from 1916 to the end of WW1 and from 1939 to 1960.
Maybe a few famous Unionist politicians starting with Ian Paisley could explain how they saw out WW2 in civvy street.
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Prepare to note the loyalist paramilitary contribution to Remembrance Sunday – and the abject silence of unionist politicians, BBC, UTV etc.
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A quote from a discussion on YBIG forum
“Poppy fascism goes like this. 10 years ago a poppy was worn this weekend every year by old guys. Folk maybe with a direct link to someone who died in WW1 or WW2. No big fuss was caused, you’d maybe see afew people on TV wearing one the whole thing was over and done with in afew days and barely raised any mainstream attention.
About 6 or 7 years ago you had hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of the UK trying to stop the war in Iraq. Support for the British millitary operation was at an all time low. Something had to be done- government oriented PR operation to bring back the poppy
Step 1) XFactor, get it on TV every Saturday night, hey- maybe even get the contestants to release a song in honour of these ‘heros’
Step 2) Football shirts, put pressure on clubs to wear. If you have XFactor and EPL teams onboard you are really getting in it peoples faces
Step 3) TV Presenters, TV Guests, Banner of Red Top newspapers…. All of a sudden its a fashion statement and now they can begin to home in on those who arent conforming.
Modern Fascism at work.
And for anyone who still thinks its all about Remembrance….heres what went on at Ibrox Yesterday.. they really look like they are remembering the dead. Its more of a celebration.
http://youtu.be/TcKJheBXKYU “
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Remembrance is a national act as well as a personal one; in different nations it takes on different forms and is reasonably similar across the “white” dominions, bar what happened in the IFS when RBL parades were attacked despite the best efforts of the Irish Army and the Guards.
In the UK, we have the national remembrance day on the Sunday closest to Armistice Day, the Festival of Remembrance on the Saturday evening before and the laying of wreaths and church services.
My own church has two memorials inside it, to those members of the congregation who served in both world wars. My band lays a wreath, which may be quite an unusual act compared to what goes on elsewhere but then, as I’ve mentioned on here before, we also have our own Roll of Honour from WW1 still displayed in our own hall.
I recently uncovered a paternal great uncle, whose name is on a plaque in a South Belfast church, with his own former church closed down.
I agree with Enda’s post about poppy facism to a certain extent; I would much rather someone observed remembrance without having to wear a poppy sown onto their football top unless they consciously wanted it there. As someone more famous than I once said, and now has to stand me paraphrasing, “I don’t agree with what you do but I will defend your right to do it.”
BD, you know me better than to be the one to jump on the “whataboutery” bandwagon. Begley, Castlederg, Bodenstown or any other republican commemorations are remembrances. They don’t have the “weight” of Remembrance Day because they are not officially sanctioned, national acts of remembrance in the UK.
I pop on a poppy from 1st November to Remembrance Sunday/11th November, whichever is later. I do it not to glorify all our foreign policies but to remember those who truly did give their tomorrows.
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“There is also the awkward fact that Unionists are still to acknowledge that their fellow countrymen have a right to remember our own fallen. That point has never once been conceded by an Ulster Unionist to my knowledge although the Queen of England did just this on her visit to Dublin with her visit to the Garden of Remembrance on Parnell Square.”
Excellent point BangorDub.
Post-GFA, the north is officially recognized as a shared space where parity of esteem is to exist between the unionist and nationalist traditions. However, although unionists signed up to this as per the GFA, they are totally opposed to this in practice as we saw with unionists attempts to wreck Belfast City Centre after losing a democratic vote over the flag at BCC.
It will be interesting to see how Richard Haass gets on, especially as we have the Centenary of the 1916 Rising upon us in a few short years – not to mention 2020, when there will be a Nationalist majority in the North, which will be a serious game-changer.
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By and large I dont really have a problem with the poppy appeal though why a charity should be looking after the welfare of veterans and their families and not the state is a bit puzzling. I am completely against people being pressurised into wearing a poppy and remember the furore when Donna Trainor didnt wear one a number of yeras ago and last year I had sympathy with James McLean who does normally comes across as a cretin took the brave decision not to wear one and as I remember was the only premier league player to do so. Some will argue that its because he is ultra Republican but surely every player should have the choice and not have to ‘opt out’
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The poppy event in NI looks like an event to bash the other side with.
Sounds terrible but true.
How do the leading unionist politicos explain their WW2 record.
Was there something physically wrong with Ian Paisley?
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Curiously enough, all of my Catholic relatives/ancestors and their brothers, all fought (and mostly died) in the ‘Great’ War. My North Down Protestant Great Grandfather didn’t believe in fighting other peoples battles, so didn’t go.
I think the difference was that he could afford not to go, while the others were watching their children go hungry and dying of TB, so they really had no choice.
The pay and pension was considered quite good and two of my orphaned Grandparents got their education as a result of it.
I believe in England, that many pacifists wear a White Poppy. It would be too hypocritical of me to wear one, but maybe the Letsgetalongerists should consider other options before they jump right into the Imperial War Machine’s Fund and Fodder raiser.
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Paul,
That’s a great comment.
Well said
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Is Basil McCrea hosting a lovely girl contest up at Stormont on Saturday? According to the BBC he is. I know it’s a bit off topic but I think it should be discussed.
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Hoboroad,
More info please! 😉
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http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/mla-quits-miss-ulster-judging-panel-as-arlene-foster-compares-damaging-beauty-contest-to-father-ted-skit-29686659.html
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No names obviously but a certain somebody complaining is only jealous because she would have to pass the crocodile dundee test before being entered into such a competition
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It’s alway the ugly ones who complain. Where does she get her hair cut?
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Perhaps we should have a Mr Stormont Competition, Sammy Wilson and Jim Allistair vs Gerry Kelly?
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Any news on Ruth Patterson’s alleged defection to the TUV?
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When I was a kid, Poppy Day had the tag ‘to remember the fallen of 2 world wars’. Who could object to that? Nowdays, it is extended to cover those who participated in all wars. WOW, look at that in the context of recent cases brought by Malays and Kenyan Mau Maus. What the cases also highlight it is how information was removed and/or destroyed so that justice denied would be the salt in the wounds. So. We’re being asked to pay towards the comfort of a brutal colonialist machine’s foot soldiers.
They were different days,with different standards and the world was a bigger place then. So, now we come to recent wars, wars fought in a smaller world with freer information and without any compulsion on anyone to join the army. Now we have informed men and women going to war against two nations that didn’t threaten us (we didn’t attack the one that did, Saudi Arabia) with the case against the invasions all over the media. Freely, these men and women took to arms and set both nations backwards politically, militarily and socially.
With full knowledge, thousands of British soldiers went to Afghanistan and took on arguably the greatest fighting nation in the world. In return, the fighters sent many soldiers back in wheelchairs, often with limbs missing. We have the Legion and Help of Heroes asking for support whereas only guesses can be made about how man men, women and children were left the same but they are uncounted ‘sand niggers’.
The men of ‘ two world wars’ are worthy of the badge of heroes but with a couple of exceptions, others are not.
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Here’s a good piece from (what I’m assuming) in a non provey http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/assed-baig/poppy-remembrance-_b_2052098.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
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