Today, there was movement, finally.
The First and Deputy First Minister have been holding meetings with all and sundry over the past two days. The head of the PSNI, the other political parties, various churchmen (no Women, mind you) and the Loyal (to whom? the question begs) Orders.
The day started with a very welcome apology from the Royal Black Institution to the clergy and parishoners of St Patricks Catholic Church. This was qualified and belated but is nevertheless progress and should not be underestimated. It is hugely significant. The Black Institution always seemed to me the more progressive organisation and has successfully engaged with the rest of the community in places such as Derry to enable largely peaceful parading over recent years. Of course it was the respective heads of the Presbyterian and Church of Ireland congregations who first “broke ranks” and called this for what it was.
Meanwhile the simmering sinister silence of the Orange Order continues.
The politicians made some positive noises, OK, that’s what they should be doing. Nelson McCauseland has obviously been gagged and tied up somewhere. Nigel Dodds is probably guarding him in the dungeon of an obscure Orange Hall in the depths of Co Antrim.
It is good to see something finally happen and it is likely that the marches to commemorate the Ulster Covenant at the end of the month have focussed minds. The proof, as always, will be in the product. I can’t help wondering how the Republican march to commemorate 1916 will pass off through Belfast in 2016. By then Belfast will be a Nationalist majority city. Nationalists already exceed Unionists demographically in the City.
I trust that Unionists will reciprocate.
andrewgdotcom said:
I was genuinely surprised at the Black digging themselves so deep in the first place – they always did pride themselves as being more civilised, even genteel than the Orange. I would certainly expect them to be capable of reaching an agreement with residents along similar lines to the Apprentice Boys. We may be waiting a little longer for the Orange to follow suit, I fear.
Belfast is only majority-nationalist if one counts the council area. Many unionists are safely dug in beyond the line in Castlereagh, while Andersonstown extends almost to Lisburn. Not that I’m suggesting a unionist majority should be gerrymandered, but the difference between the administrative boundaries and the metropolitan area does look a little lopsided…
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bangordub said:
Andrew,
I agree with your points about the Black. I think they have demonstrated that agreement is possible. Nationalists may never like what the Loyal orders stand for but respect should be a non negotiable starting point. It is rather difficult to actually view as good neighbours those whose very raison d’etre is to celebrate a percieved victory over your ancestors and their beliefs. (And by extension your own)
Your point about Belfast is interesting. There are some very knowledgable commenters on this site regarding detailed changes at ward level in Belfast and other areas- Oakleaf seems to have the south Derry/ Tyrone area down to a T.
All I will say until the 2011 Census figs are released is that there are huge changes going on, not least influenced by immigration which is a new phenomenon up North. Not an unwelcome one in my opinion.
PS: next tranche of Census figs are released on 19th of this month, I’m prepping my spreadsheets in anticipation!
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oakleaf said:
Although I’ve no time for the loyal orders I agree that as a tolerant society they should have the right to celebrate their culture. It’s a pity that tolerance for the nationalist culture is not as respected.
However I’ve no toleration for union jacks flying for months on ends. One or two weeks is more than enough.
Regarding Belfast the new council boundaries are already set. The DUP were never going to allow Castlreagh to be merged with Belfast. It’s their wee kingdom.
Anyhow many areas of Castlereagh and Lisburn along with N’Abbey have a growing nat community. You just got to look at the size of St Ita’s and St Joseph’s ps in Carryduff and N’Breda to realise this.
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bangordub said:
Oakleaf,
That is what makes this census incredibly interesting from my point of view. I will be taking my cue from Horsemans figures and analysing the trends accordingly. The big factor that will skew things this time round is the immigration pattern. Dungannon and Magherafelt , for example, will be hugely affected by this.
I am expecting, but I am by no means certain of, a further polarising of Unionist majority areas. Hence the paranoia we are witnessing re parades etc.
Unionism seems to me to thrive only in the face of percieved threat. Therefore if that threat is removed, there is a sense of confusion and a search begins for a new percieved enemy. This is the psychology of paranoia and low self esteem. The question is how to encourage confidence in Unionism. I haven’t an easy answer to that
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oakleaf said:
Watch out for immigration in Ballymena, Portadown and Armagh.
Presentation ps in Portadown would be closed by now if not for immigrants. It’s about 60% immigrant.
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oakleaf said:
A lot of schools have extra P1 classrs this year because of a bounce in the birth rate. How long this continues who knows!
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hoboroad said:
http://m.scotsman.com/news/george-kerevan-the-future-is-not-orange-but-neither-is-it-green-1-2511519
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bangordub said:
Thanks Hoboroad, a very interesting read!
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sammymcnally said:
Yes, really interesting read. (Slightly disappointing he didnt work in the Scottish attiude to the Orange Orders).
As I mentioned above, the optimism of Horseman and others inclduing myself about ‘good’ census figures is now tempered by the fall in support for Uniification – driven in part at least by the economic hari-kari in the South.
BD,
Unionist ‘confidence’ should be bolstered by this fall off in support of a UI and I suspect sensible (ie not those obsessed with religion and marching) Prods are actually sleeping sounder in their beds as the realise the Union (although increasingly hollowed out) looks safer than it has for a long time.
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hoboroad said:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ian-paisley-jnrs-rent-bill-eighth-highest-in-the-commons-16208121.html
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sammymcnally said:
BD,
Further speculation regarding Nelson’s graves talk over on Slugger (nr 202).
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bangordub said:
Thanks Sammy,
I didn’t make it along unfortunately. We Dubliners are very proud of our historical figures. I remember in my CBS school learning the stories of the French Hugenoets, Carson (and Oscar Wilde), and many others of a non RC persuasion. It was drummed into us how important it was to respect and understand other religious beliefs if we expected any respect for our own. We even studied Muslims and Jews during RE classes and explored doctrinal differences with the major Protestant denominations. I could still write a hefty thesis on Calvin, Luther and Savonarola!
Mind you, we turned out a mighty Godless lot on the whole!
ps: Did you see the Hurling Final? Brilliant game
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sammymcnally said:
bd,
I’m more of a garrison sport type – Rugger and soccerball, keep an eye on the GAA but very much third choice for me. Deep Shame.
The William Drennan/Nelson thing is fascinating – hopefully we will get a report back on the proceedings.
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bangordub said:
Sammy,
Yes, typical of Nelson to turn an historical tour into a political point scoring exercise.
If he has a genuine interest there may be hope yet……
Us, supposedly bankrupt, Southerners have, in general, an interest across all sports by the way. I am as interested in Ruggerball and Soccerball as I am in GAA. I just thought that the Hurling final was an amazing advertisment for the sport in every sense. I’m just back from a certain pub in Bangor where all were agreed it was a fantastic game.
Now, If only Co Down could get a team together……
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