The British Government has failed in its attempt to redraw the Westminster boundaries.
I am very pleased naturally as this means attempts to ghettoise the nationalist vote have been stopped in their tracks. For example, Belfast, a nationalist majority city would have been reduced from four seats to three. Currently there are two nationalist, one unionist and one alliance MPs. The changes would have likely returned two unionist and one nationalist. Strange one that, although not for my older readers.
Of course it is much easier for me to compare like with like election wise and that, for me is great. Nigel Dodds is, as Nordie Northsider says in the previous thread, indeed in for “squeaky bum” time.
Unrelated but I also think I have to say something about the fact that Alliance under their shared future agenda today called for a stop to funding for catholic and maintained funding for building new schools in favour of only funding integrated education.
In the 1920′s Lord “London”Derry proposed that funding be removed from catholic schools. I suggest that anyone interested in the history of that particular period read up and look at the results of that policy. Then view the alliance proposal again. Good luck. I came to only 1 conclusion.
In 1912
Yes, that churches have no place running public services. For all the faults of the Unionist government of NI, Londonderry was absolutely right. Religious instruction has no place in school. End of.
Andrewg,
Fair comment but I disagree with you.
Given the history of education or rather lack of education in Ireland over an extended period of time, the Church was the only source of education for most. The hedge school wasn’t a myth you know. I am no fan of the church, of whatever denomination but I cannot deny and I will not dismiss what was achieved against state opposition for the benefit of Irish people. It is an absolute credit to the likes of Edmund Rice and others.
My point? Londonderry was absolutely wrong. And yes churches do have a place running educational services, particularly where education is denied to citizens.
I’m not disputing the historical role of the churches (yes, Protestants went to hedge schools too). But past injustices do not give them a free pass until the end of time. Religious institutions also used to manage workhouses, for example, a role long since superseded by the state. Religious schools are better than no schools, I’ll grant you. But they are a flawed, illiberal solution to a problem that no longer exists. No child is denied schooling in modern society.
Alliance is a coalition. And a “programme” that has no chance of ever being implemented is more about tokenism….look at us we are hard on those Catholics west of the Bann, where it won’t cost them a vote but will get them so called liberal votes in the usual places. Genuine letsgetalongerists would be more tolerant than this..so it’s probably a sign of a fault line. Ford had a bit of a cheek yesterday talking about ideological splits in SDLP. There’s always fault lines in every Party but Alliance have always been under the radar….as the Flegs issue has put them in the full glare of the spotlights….and increasingly they are a bit tetchy. There IS a fault line there….and it’s there to be exploited by Alliances rivals.
At the SDLP Conference 2010….there ws a panel discussion which included Duncan Morrow and Rev Norman Hamilton. When the hoary old chestnut of integration was brought up…Dr Hamilton sounded a note of caution.
There is no system of education which is “value free”….lets be frank state schools are de facto Protestant schools and Protestant churches do have a degree of influence that they would not have in a totally integrated system. Arguably Catholic Churches would be more influential than Protestant churches.
It would be a mistake to think that Protestants are anti-catholic schools.
Integrated education as understood by Alliance is a minority obsession.Can they seriously be allowed to dictate Education…to majority.
There is term…in loco parentis …..are we not entitled to choose a system of education which reflects our values. Parental choice….is that so strange?
The Alliance Party are arrogant….why can’t they accept that the values of Fordie, Naomi, Farry, Parsley and Flash Harry are not superior.
As I said in a reply to FJH on my blog, I believe the SDLP and Sinn Féin should call the Unionist bluff on the issue of “integrated education” and put forward a joint-policy for “agreed education” in the North of Ireland with publicly-funded schools that are separate from any religious denomination but which are balanced in terms of ethos and culture between both national communities: Irish and British.
Suggest that the education system be De-Britishfied and instead that a neutral curriculum be introduced at all levels that takes into account the cultures, nationalities and loyalties of both communities. Put a program in place for a truly neutral educational environment where elements of the Irish and British curricula are blended together.
Demand the introduction of obligatory Irish language classes for all pupils (as is the case in Wales with the Welsh language and will eventually be the case with Scots English and the Scottish language in Scotland). Suggest the introduction of Gaelic sports into all schools.
Demand the barriers to Irish-medium education are removed and provide proper funding for that sector is given.
Ask for an eduction system where 1916 means both the Easter Rising and the Battle of the Somme.
Then see the reaction from the Unionist DUP/UUP/TUV and Unionist-lites of the Alliance.
Just had a quick look at the changes in community background in the Westminster constituencies between 2001 and 2011. It makes for interesting reading by the way East Belfast is now more Catholic than North Down! South Belfast and North Belfast both now have a larger catholic community background than protestant
12.58% of Beechmount classify themselves as British. Similar proportion in Aghnagallon near Lurgan. And in ‘republican’ Ardboe only 60% of nationalists feel Irish as their national identity. Depressing stuff. Only hope for United Ireland lies in Scotland being brave to go independent and a McDonald/Doherty led SF in the south trouncing the partitionist Ff/Fg/Lab and Harrisite Rte traitors!!!
Mekonged,
re. “Depressing stuff”. Yes and who do these guys vote for – presumably Alliance?
And why wouldnt they as the reality is they live in the UK and probably hold British passports. It doesnt in anyway indicate how they will vote on a border poll either tomorrow or in 20 years. Identity as we have discussed in the past is completely up for interpretation. 40 million americans are suppossedly ‘Irish’ yet in Britain 1 in 4 people have AT LEAST an irish grandparent and yet the census reveals only 400000 irish people. Lets not forget this is the first time this question has been asked and was almost certainly included to help soften up the community background figures. We will have more of an idea when we can compare the next set of census figures to these
boondock,
“It doesnt in anyway indicate how they will vote on a border poll either tomorrow or in 20 years.”
We cant really prove this one way or the other but your suggestion above is at the least a touch counter intuitive.
BD,
There are certain arguements that both communities have ended up on the wrong side of e.g. Unionists with global warming, gay rights but integrated education is clearly one of ours.
Integrated education would (probably) have been bad from a Nationlaists view point as British ‘culture’ would have been normalised but we cant defend it when you consider its impact on community relations.
The old hedge schools arguement is a very poor attempt at that – though I have pedalled it my self a few times if truth were told.
Seamus,
Integrated education should the policy irrespective of the any political considerations – though I agree about it being a fair and neutral environment.
We are quick to point the finger at unionists for arguements of convenience when they are trying to defend the indefensible we should recognise/admit when we are up to the same ourselves.
“Then see the reaction from the Unionist DUP/UUP/TUV and Unionist-lites of the Alliance.”
You’re on. Gaelic’s a great idea as a summer and primary school sport. Did Tommy Bowe and Brian O’Driscoll no harm, But the quid pro quo is everyone has to try Rugby as well.
Not trying to stir but I sometimes wonder why the maintained sector doesn’t do something more radical than just offering a popish version of British schooling. Why not use the whole of the Irish syllabus? That would at least justify the separate bureaucracy with a different offer and something other than just keeping prods out*. If they can teach Cambridge O levels in Singapore or A levels at St Columba’s in Dublin surely you can teach the leaving cert in NI.
*if keeping the prods out isn’t the reason for catholic schooling (and I don’t think it is btw) then the Irish News cartoon yesterday was a bit off. It showed a poor nationalist infant** in his push chair being struck with a brick and his mother reading the attached note which said “see you when the new school’s built”. Classy.***
**You can tell he’s nationalist because he’s in Orange and his mum’s in Green.
***They must also think prods are really really thick at the Irish News (or maybe or unnaturally developed at an early age) as people writing notes and lobbing bricks are expected to still be at primary school when a little boy currently in his push chair starts P1.
Pedantic point but was the proposed redrawing of boundaries still a “British government” bill once the Lib Dems said they weren’t supporting it?
Is there any impact on the proposed council boundary changes?
Evening all,
Due to unforeseen work commitments I have only got going in the last hour. Will have a Belfast detailed analysis out asap, thanks for your patience. I can see youy are having fun with the figures already
You doing the wards and soa’s info released today?
Yes Oakleaf. I am stunned at the Belfast Figures which I’m doing first. I am rechecking because some of them are simply unbelievable, eg Ravenhill. Post out in about an hour mate
Waiting patiently……..:-)
Londonderry was a strange character; very liberal when it came to education, wanting to remove the influence of churches from schools. He was undoubtably ahead of his time and was battered by the bishops on one side and the brothers on the other. Take a look around Mount Stewart if you can, you’ll see a little stormtrooper on the mantlepiece, a gift from family friend Ribbentrop.
Thanks for that Carrickally,
I’m not far from Mt Stewart and although I have visited the grounds, never been in the House. I’ll put that right soon. As for his choice of friends…..well I’ll leave that to others
What’s funny about talk of hedge schools here Dub is that the nearest thing to a modern Northern Irish hedge school – the improvised school working without funding because it didn’t fit with the segregationist establishment – is the integrated school!
http://www.lagancollege.com/college/schoolhistory.php
Actually Otto, the closest thing is the sharia school. But let’s keep schtum about that while we all argue away over our intra-Christian differences!